NACC Type Machines - members views sought.

I think that we should first realise that Frank was trying to protect the club that he was so fond of and not trying to destroy it.If he wasn't allowed to air his views in order to protect his club then his frustration is understandable ,tho e bay isn't the correct place to vent it .  This is the NACC,the A is for AUTOCYCLE the C is for CYCLEMOTOR  and Frank was Ok on relaxing that to allow certain mopeds in ,which in a way is generous .These older machines have  personality , intrigue and an obstinate   character that make events so enjoyable .I think that  this is what appealed to Frank and he saw it being eroded by modern machines that have little mystique  or character.Lets face it to  bystanders seeing a group of Cyclemotors  buzzing along a lane are intrigued  , a gaggle of mopeds could be mistaken for a few blokes on their way to work , such is the difference . My own view is probably more extreme than Franks in that my ideal cut off date for machine eligibility would be  1970 or even a little earlier .  However this great little club of ours is littered with all manner of wonderful characters with a huge variety of temperaments ,skills and interests but the basic thread, as far as I can see, seems to be that they are all basically good sorts , its just that some haven't yet realised the joys of a motor hindered bicycle ,but on looking in on the forum I can see some are on the turn and good for them.I do also hope that Frank will return and bring with him some of the madcap moments that at times illuminated this club .

Blatant Liar.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220612734209&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

quote
The Side to Side run will still go ahead, as the other run is a closed shop , I asked for 14 members to go on that run but we where excluded.
At the lunch stop on the the run of 9th Aug last year Frank stated he had x no of people interested, wanted to go West to East, grand affair with a civic reception at Lowestoft. It would be an NACC event open to any machine. Fine . But i didn't want to be part of it and said to Carl should we go on our own, the rest is history he has organised every thing for us, posted every thing on the forum and in buzzing and always said ANYBODY CAN TAG ALONG BUT WOULD HAVE TO MAKE THERE OWN ACCOMADATION AND BACK UP ARRANGEMENTS.

Hello again

The general idea of posting this topic was to acertain what members thought about changing the rules of the club along the lines FB is suggesting. ie "if it dont have pedals it isn't an NACC type machine and the club shouldn't be promoting such machines".

Thus we could take the opportunity of making the committee aware of what the general feeling of the membership is in relation to that proposition.

Can we therefore take it as read that how FB has gone about his campaign is not something that many members are likely to approve of, resist the temptation to point out what we think of the approach taken and FB in general and skip on to just addressing and discussing that question?

Taking into account that I own a Honda C90 and C100 as well as an RM6 and 2 Mobylette wrecks,I think Frank does have a point.   Cub90.co.uk and the C90club welcome the step thru's and the'Bimbles' that I've been on with them were great fun. I hav'nt been on any NACC runs,but would imagine the step thru's and sports mopeds would just blast away from the 'proper NACC machines' Would a horsepower limit work do you think?   Its a shame to turn enthusiasts away,and cheap pedal and pops are always available on Ebay or at the bigger autojumbles,so for a couple of hundred pounds you will be an NACC member in the true sense. Maybe this is  cobblers......if so,feel free to shoot me down. 

I only joined becuase I had a 75' honda pf50 not really a cyclemotor I know but what other clubs are availible to them? I joined the only british moped club in the country! I certainly have an interested in the clip on type machine but had the club been 'clip on only' I would have never joined. And in fairness if it returned to 'clip on only' I wouldn't renew my subscription as my main interest is the mopeds from the 60's and 70's (and possibly the 80's too)

Maybe it in the larger districts it would be worth having pre60's runs and post 50's runs, that way the moped is different and the machines get bunched together Not that I have any desire for things to be done like that, I used to enjoy riding along at 15-20mph on my 80's bike following a cyclemotor.

For me the ownership of a '78 Moby was the catalyst for joining. 
I have been shocked at the bickering within the club and between the two clubs.  It's very disappointing, after all this is a hobby to be enjoyed. 
My view is that anything with pedals and a motor smaller than 50cc should be welcomed. 
Maybe open to discussion about the,pedals, bit cos that excludes some of the baby Honda's, but they have at least got their own club.
I know that includes FS1e and the likes but they are mostly catered for by other specialist clubs.  And so what if a Sports 'ped comes on a run, we all should have an open mind and an interest in any little bike that appears.
This all put me off attending a ride as it seems possible that I may be rebuffed by the "low power crew" what with my monster of a bike, an AV89 !!
For gods sake "live and let live" the club will only benefit with more members and if it gets too big there can easily be sub sections to focus interest.
My suspicion is that it will all but die if the interest is too focused, as the membership will dwindle.

Well for what it's worth these are my PERSONAL views on the matters raised both on E bay and on this forum :
I first joined the club many years ago when a very good friend of mine - Ray Gibb - persuaded me to join him on a NACC run and very kindly lent me a Raleigh Runabout moped for the day...
Now please consider that I had not long finished a long career of racing motorcycles culminating in competing at International level in the Sidecar Grasstrack class; so I was somewhat reluctant to ride (or be seen to ride ) a gutless 50cc pedal assisted machine of any sort !.....
BUT I throughly enjoyed the experience met some interesting and pleasant people so I guess the seed was sown that day..
Now I am fast approaching my half-century in terms of years passed by, so the machines of my youth were PC50s, FS1-Es and of course my dream bike the Puch Grand Prix, so my first choice of machine to own for NACC runs was a Honda PC50 similiar to the one I owned as a spotty 16 year old - of course I really wanted a Grand Prix when I was on L plates; but as an impoverished student such exotic machinery was way beyond my reach -
Now if someone had come up to me on my first NACC event with the machine and said " No Jap crap here matey " I would have walked away never to return....
So what I am trying to say is that if we are to encourage new blood into the club (which in future years will hopefully ensure the future of the NACC) we have to recognise that different generations have differing interests in the machines they choose to own and ride and they should not be made to feel alienated from the rest of us just because their machine does not have pedals or does not look like a moped in the conventional sense or has a foreign motif on its fuel tank....
That said I think that EVERY effort should be made to encourage the use of ALL sub 50cc machines over 25years old ESPECIALLY those fitted with pedals.
My own preference is that machines should have pedals and I can proudly say that all the machines used on NACC runs in our household are well over 25 years old and all can be propelled by pedal power alone, however I am of a generation when Sports Mopeds were "in vogue" and I feel that such machines are a very important part of Moped history and so feel no guilt at all at turning up at a NACC run on my Grand Prix or Debbie's Yamaha FS1-E, and I feel it would be quite in order for anyone to turn up on a Kawasaki AR50 or a Honda C50L  as again these feature heavily in moped folklore.
Also I would like to think that if my health deteriated to such a level that I could not manage a pedal assisted machine I would still be able to enjoy the company of other NACC members even if I had to turn up on a 1985 electric start Honda Vision...

I am very personally saddened that Frank has decided to use the medium of E bay to gather support for his ideas, the place for such discussion is surely the AGM, however I can see that Frank felt there was no alternative following the decision not to publish his letter in Buzzing; my feelings are that the letter SHOULD have been published and then sensible discussion would have followed, hopefully culminating in sensible proposals being put forward at the next AGM, past experience has shown that the club is far bigger than one or two individuals with their own agendas, so the membership would have ultimately democratically chosen the best route to follow as indeed happened a few years ago.

I do feel that Frank is missing the point; to my mind the NACC is about the people NOT the machines, I have met scores of lovely people from all over the country since I joined the NACC, many of whom I'm sure will remain lifelong friends, I've never been treated with contempt or scorn regardless of what machines I have turned up at events on, I am always made to feel very welcome and always throughly enjoy my days out; I try to repay this kindness in some small way by being part of the East Coast Pedalers team that organise events on behalf of the NACC in our area and hope that we extend the same welcome to visting members to our events.
I'm sure that if Frank had made a bit more of an effort to attend a few more events during the last couple of years than his feelings - and respect for other members machines - would be different.

On a slightly different point - I personally have no interest at all in the Riders Badge Scheme; I just enjoy riding and working on my machines and sharing the experience with other like-minded members, BUT I appreciate that others will have their own views on this subject so will leave discussion on this subject to them.

As for the discussion regarding Bike Shows, again I have no real interest in putting my machines on display at such shows, but I appreciate the unpaid efforts put in by the volunteers who represent the NACC at such prestigious events and feel that they should be applauded not criticised.

Lastly I don't think Frank (and probably most other club members ) realise the many, many hours of work that the committee members put into the running of the NACC for OUR benefit, I know from the work I do for the East Coast Pedaler section how much time is taken up with administration etc and I'm certain that this very small scale compared to what is involved at committee level, personally if I was subject to such public criticism I would turn my back on the NACC and focus my energies on other activities.
REMEMBER without a committee there would be no club.

Well those are my thoughts, but I am just one of 1500+ members, so let's hear from some others......

As a footnote to the above -- at Roly's 50th Birthday run a couple of years ago, a member turned up on a Mini Motor which expired at the end of Framlingham College drive, he then opted to make use of the "Track Spare" HONDA Novio  but would you believe it I can't for the life of me remember who that member was !

 Do I get a prize for the longest post on the Forum so far ?

My opinion, for what its worth, is that the club should be open to all low powered machines whether they have pedals or not.
After all it really a collection of eccentrics interested in unusual machinery, some of the members are more eccentric than others, some are probably considered by normal people (does such a person exist) to be on the verge of being certifiable. Most of the machinery falls into similar categories.
A large percentage of members probably have machines of all types.
Where we live we obviously do not have the opportunity to join in many runs, but when we lived in the UK we were regular participants - our attitude would be that we would rather enjoy the company of like minded people, even if they were for example riding a modern scooter, rather than have them feel that they were unable to join in due to lack of eligible machinery.
I also think Steve is right about the membership dwindling if the interest is too focused.

The Side to Side run will still go ahead, as the other run is a closed shop , I asked for 14 members to go on that run but we where excluded.

 
Just for the record the above is NOT true, our run has always been open to everyone (and still is ).
The details and arrangements have been advertised in Buzzing and on the club website for many weeks - we didn't feel the need to promote it on E bay though !
We were not asked for the 14 members and have no idea who they were except for one of course !

Have read Carl's post which I broadly agree with.

Yes, it would probably have been a good idea to publish FB's letter in Buzzing to enable a debate.

The reason it was not published, as I understand it, was that it contained within it an allegation of misconduct against one of the NACC committee members and FB would not remove that bit and thus allow it to be published. The decision was therefore taken not to publish it as it was also the subject of formal complaint and therefore could not really be published prior to that complaint being dealt with.

Subsequently the committee examined and discussed the allegation /  formal complaint and found it to be completely unfounded.

I can further report that neither of the two committee members mentioned in the allegation took part in that decision having absented themselves from that part of the meeting (contrary to what has been posted in another place).

I think it must be possible to have a discussion within the club without the need to slang off members of the committee or other members of the club.

We have had some good and thought out views  here relating to the subject from both sides of the fence, I do hope we will get some more as the more members that voice an opinion the better the balance of a possible solution will be.

Finally, I am distressed by some comments in the posts above by a couple of new members to the club  

I don't think we have done ourselves any favours by this rather public punch up and I would like to apologise to them and do hope that they will see the whole thing for what it is - ie a few daft old buggers with not enough to do having 'a bit of a turn' and not much more.  I further hope that they will wade in with as much 'taking of the Michael' as they can muster as it is certainly deserving of such.

 
It is impossible to read Buzzing or to turn up at one of the many shows where the NACC exhibit without correctly tasting the primary flavours of NACC fayre.
 
At the cafe window, the NACC is for my mind clear about what it stands for and promotes just the sort of fodder that tickles my taste buds, and those of approaching 2000 others.
 
Behind the cafe, the NACC gets still more tasty. It's the start of an NACC run and brimming with bacon butties, and tea, a gaggle of riders attempt to fire-up a ragbag of decrepit machines: autocycles, cyclemotors, mopeds, motorbikes, ancient recovery vehicles, bicycles, three-wheelers and more whilst gently ribbing eachother at the slightest excuse.
 
Some machines leaning against the cafe wall are "NACC qualifying", some machines are not, everyone though is on top form, or is happy swearing at an inanimate steed that looks as if it won't make the lunch stop.
 
Whilst my buttocks are indeed happiest perched on some Cyclemotor or other, I am also very partial to a bacon roll, eaten in the company of those who are similarly befuddled. I fear that if the club narrows its horizons and fails to attract the riders of a wide array of feeble machines through the cafe door and into the rear car park, my waistline will diminish horribly.
 
In short, I'm happy with the way the club presents itself, what it stands for and the beneficial impact that it has on my appetite. The NACC Committe have found the perfect balance: promoting the awareness of core machines by catering for those who perhaps understandably like sugar on their grey porridge.

I have been a member of the club for a few years, I have a good friend with a Wall who introduced me to buzzing. As I work full time and have two teenage boys my sparetime is limited so meetings and runs don't get much of a look in. Buzzing infected me and I now have a P50 and Puch Mv 50 in my garage along with my two other 'VJMC bikes'
 
I am of the Post FS1e generation, mopeds I lusted after as a youth were Honda MB5, suzuki TS50 ER etc. (NO PEDALS BUT GUTLESS) Getting me to even look at a bike with pedals is quite an achievment.
 
In time I will no doubt experience  and own older NACC type machines.
 
For the club to continue to attract new members it needs to apeal to all and not exclude newer machines.. it gets us young uns through the door and then you can encourage us to enjoy older machinery.
I came across for the Sadoldgits run this year, as we were riding over from Leeds we decided just to meet up at lunch.
I came on my CB200 as its the only bike with a MOT, john who has had major surgery on his feet and cant pedal on a Gamax 50 and his wife on the only NACC machine a Puch Maxi.
We were all welcomed at the event, I enjoyed seeing the very different bikes and it made me more inclined to get more involved .
A bar on none NACC machines would have meant that we would have missed this event.
 
I don't show my bikes, I don't want a badge I just like spending time with like minded people and getting my hands dirty fettling old bikes.
 
I just found the ebay campaign a bit sad.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

As an aside, I was not aware of the ebay campaign before reading this thread and will NOT be reading it. I'm not interested.

Being more of a "guidelines" sort of person, I'm happy with the current approach. If someone turns up on an inappropriate machine, "tut tut" sotto voce but make them welcome and point them on the way of enlightenment. 

For the club to continue to attract new members it needs to apeal to all and not exclude newer machines.. it gets us young uns through the door and then you can encourage us to enjoy older machinery.


We were all welcomed at the event, I enjoyed seeing the very different bikes and it made me more inclined to get more involved .
A bar on none NACC machines would have meant that we would have missed this event.
 
  I don't want a badge I just like spending time with like minded people and getting my hands dirty fettling old bikes.

In time I will no doubt experience  and own older NACC type machines.
 
I just found the ebay campaign a bit sad.

Thanks go to p50phill, copy and paste.

I'm a moped man at heart and enjoy the company of like-minded nutters on a Sunday run, all armed with permits signed by spouses and partners.  That said, I appreciate the clip-ons and covet (in particular) a Power Pak Synchro.  What I don't appreciate is the back-biting and in-fighting that have bedevilled the NACC in recent years

Like any Club, the NACC has strong personalities among the membership, not all of whom can be expected to get along all of the time.  However, we are all adults - our passion for recalcitrant and woefully underpowered machinery notwithstanding - and I don't agree with some of the tactics used by several members to express their views.  There are far better ways to discuss our differences than indulging in slanging matches on eBay no matter how strongly we may feel about a particular issue.

The greatest loser in all of the political wranglings is, of course, the Club itself.  Like an earlier entry on this thread says, who would want to remain on the Committee under the sort of fire that has been winging backwards and forwards?  The members of the Committee work hard for little or no reward to hold it all together, to give the rank and file the simple pleasure of a nostril full of two-stroke fumes in a country lane.  Some members develop special interests and bring to the Club their expertise, be it with their writing or engineering skills and when these members leave the Club for whatever reason, their skills and enjoyment they bring to the life of the Club are lost to the members who feel that they have to remain loyal to one outfit or another.

I would like to see a rational dialogue opened between Frank and the Committee and hope that their differing views can be aired reasonably and in a spirit of reconciliation - Frank is one of the members whose antics on the rally field will be missed if he is no longer on the NACC scene.

Gee, what to say on this subject? My main club is the VMCC and has been for more than 50 years and I am very much a 'new boy' with the NACC. I have a collection of over 20 machines ranging from 1902 to 1974 and for my sins have sat on the VMCC Management Committee for eight years and am currently the VMCC President. One of my bikes is an Autocycle, two are pedal mopeds, another a gutless 100cc scooter and I also own an Italian sports moped(no pedals) that goes like hell - I love them all and have used each at some time or another on a NACC run. In fact I seem to remember using my 1952 125cc Peugeot once. Anyway, the thing that many of us seem to miss is that the moped is the decendant of the autocycle and the pedal-less moped just another development in the small engined field of engineering. We should be interested in how the machines have developed over the years, shouldn't we? I enjoy looking at all the technical achievements.

The VMCC went through a heart rending debate nearly 40 years ago now and eventually decided to set up a 25 year rolling date. Personally I thought it a good thing at the time and still believe that approach to have been right. There is a finite limit to the availability of particular types of machine, be they Veteran, Vintage, Cyclemotors or Autocycles. By welcoming someone who only has a later bike into the club, I'm sure that the enthusiasm for the older machine will rub off and that new member will eventually want to own and ride an autocycle or cyclemotor. Personally, I'll pass on the cyclemotor though, as I have enough trouble pedalling my Veteran machines. The VMCC is all the better a club for allowing the later bikes - after all there is a plentiful supply - and they're cheap and cheerful and bring many a new member into the club. Surely there is enough room for all? Events purely for cyclemotors can be organised as can events purely for autocycles.

I must say that I'm not sure about Honda 90 step-throughs, they're not for me, but in my part of the world we have members who have no choice but to ride them, despite also owning pedallers. This is due to old age and knees and hips that don't work any more - it would be terrible to turn them away from a hobby that they have enjoyed all their lives because of their physical debilitations. Those I am talking about are great mates to me and that is what any club should be about - the bikes are just the catalyst that binds us into a club.

Back to Frank - it's a shame that he does not understand company law and what it means for the NACC to be a limited company. Basically the aims and objects of the company are laid out in the Memorandum of Association - how those aims are achieved is laid out in the Articles of Association. It is possible to amend the Articles of a company but not the Memorandum. Our Memorandum is what Frank wishes to change, according to his Ebay writings, as that is where we state what type of machine we cater for. If a change is needed then the company has to be wound up and a new company set up - not an easy or inexpensive thing to do. Also Frank is calling for Proxies to be sent to him. This is unacceptable and any proxy must be sent directly by the member to the Company Secretary in the format laid out in the Articles, not as laid out by Frank on Ebay, especially as he has it wrongly worded. To send all the proxies to a disaffected member would permit that member to 'santitize' them, so they would be unacceptable by any meeting and would need to be ruled out of order. It's such a shame that the very way that Frank is attempting to impose his views would be a complete waste of time as his motion and proxy forms could not be accepted by any Company EGM.

My feeling, and I would hope that a motion is placed before the next AGM, is that the club (not the committee, so individuals cannot be blamed) should agree a motion stating that "Any member who uses the Internet to denigrate the club and/or its' officials will have their membership immediately withdrawn".

Have I beaten Carl for the longest post?

Bill

Wise words Bill, you obviously have a better understanding of the legal side of things than us mere mortals.